Chuck Phelps Returns To Board Of Bob Jones University

While the attention of the media, abuse survivors and others were on the trial of Ernie Willis for the rape and resultant pregnancy of Tina Anderson when she was 15, there was a sleight of hand going on.  While others were focusing on what was increasingly becoming known of the actions of Tina’s pastor, Chuck Phelps who made her stand before her congregation and apologize for putting herself in a compromising situation and getting raped, the cooperating board at Bob Jones University had quietly pulled a dirty trick.  While others were riveted on the fact that a 15 year old, under the direction of her pastor, the girls mother, sent her daughter to Colorado to live with friends of Pastor Phelps where she was home-schooled while the rapist paid for the plane ticket to Colorado, another move was in progress.  Tina Anderson’s story continued to gain momentum in the media and on April 8, 2011 Elizabeth Vargus correspondent with ABC News 20/20 aired “Shattered Faith.”  Pastor Phelps told a 20/20 producer that Tina had an ongoing dating relationship with a married man that had turned sexual in nature.

The next day or so, her former Pastor Chuck Phelps went live with a website stating Tina was untruthful.  Fundamentalist Pastors and laymen on Sharper Iron and elsewhere portrayed her as a little Lolita whose wily ways hooked an innocent man into her grasp. Pastor Phelps spoke to many pastors and individuals all over the country telling them that Tina was not being truthful and that she was pressing on with criminal charges against Ernie Willis to get money.

Never mind that criminal proceedings don’t pay a dime to the victim. Any civil judgement would be a separate issue.  At the time, Tina nor her husband had not filed any documents to do so.  It is not known now whether the Anderson’s have done so, although it is  certainly within their legal rights if they chose to.

Leaders in the IFB traveled and met every other month or so in different cities to “pray with Chuck Phelps.”

While this was going on, another magic trick was in progress in the Bob Jones University boardroom.

Then the trial rolled around.  David Gibbs, III who represented both Phelps and Tina’s mother Christine Leaf lost a last minute legal “hail Mary” ploy to keep Phelps’ copious notes out of being read into the record by trying to claim, “clergy-congregant privilege.”  The judge recognized that privilege belonged to the victim not the perpetrator. Furthermore any privilege that had applied died when Phelps spoke about it to all those third parties and anyone with access to the inter-web.

It was soon revealed that Tina had told the truth and Phelps had been more than dishonest from Phelps own sworn testimony in a court of law.  Willis was convicted and sentenced on five counts.  Because the statute of limitations is short for failure to report in New Hampshire, state prosecutors are unable to charge him.  It is a long-shot that federal charges could be brought against Phelps under the Mann Act.  It appears unlikely that federal authorities will be pursuing this route at this point.

Phelps left the Bob Jones University board in 2007 after he accepted the offer to become President of Maranatha Baptist Bible College. Phelps time at Maranatha was short, he was asked to leave May 2009.

Everyone’s attention was on the 20/20 report, the upcoming trial and then the trial testimony of Christine Leaf, Chuck Phelps, Ernie Willis and others.  After Willis was found guilty our attention turned to sentencing of Willis.  Tina was vindicated.  Phelps, however never apologized, he never removed his website, nor the lies he told.  Phelps even tried to take credit for Willis being convicted.

While all this was occurring elsewhere, Chuck Phelps was quietly put back on the 2011 Cooperating Board of Bob Jones Universityalong with others such as Ian Paisley,  Jerry Svinsky and John Vaughn. Chuck Phelps is on the board with the current Vice-President of Operations, Marshall Franklin.  Since the current president Dr. Stephen Jones is on medical leave it is widely known that Mr. Franklin oversee’s the day-to-day duties of President Stephen Jones. Mr. Franklin has been a long-term trusted friend of the Jones family, especially Stephen Jones. Chuck Phelps’ name is right there as plain as day between Evangelist Stephen Pettit of the Pettit Evangelistic Ministries and Fundamental Church Planter Robert Packer.

2011 Bob Jones University Cooperating Board Members listed in BJU Catalog Page 254

2011 Bob Jones University Cooperating Board Members listed in BJU Catalog Page 254

Chuck Phelps was on the board when 20/20 aired.  Chuck Phelps was on the board when Brian Fuller, who has openly stated that Phelps was his mentor, denied there was a network in the IFB.   Either Brian Fuller is a huge patsy, or he is as deceptive as the rest. 

Dr. Bob Jones, III was present when the American Council of Christian Churches passed its resolution on abuse at the ACCC Annual meeting October 19-21, 2011. Immediately upon finding this out this afternoon, Chuckles called a pastor who was present and claims he voted for the resolution to be passed and asked him if he knew about this.  The pastor said he did, but then remarked,

“We disagree on whether Chuck did anything wrong.”

Phelps spent months lying to many people’s faces, he  set up a website to commit libel against a victim of rape, verbally slandered the victim all over the country, lied to the media, both lied to and about the police. Apparently this kind of behavior is ok for a Cooperating Board member of Bob Jones University. It’s apparently fine for a board member to do so, but a student would be expelled for much less. 

This same man quickly added,

“Chuck didn’t do anything to hurt Ms. Anderson.”

No one has the right to say what she feels or not feel other than Tina. No one has the right to tell people how Tina should feel toward those who did hurt her. However doing so is typical fundamentalist trope. Leaders are adapt at telling others how they should feel about things, even how long a person should grieve, etc. Chuckles did remind this that man even Phelps has acknowledged his actions were hurtful during his testimony.

Leaders!

This is a perfect example of why many of us feel free to challenge your “genuineness.” Every time you are given a chance to prove yourselves, you once again prove that you are less than sincere.  You have once again proven you are deceptive.

“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”  John 8:44

Hat Tip Dr. Camille K. Lewis, PHD.

11-27-2012 CLARIFICATION …

The blog first found out Phelps was reinstated around November 1, 2011.  His reinstatement dates back to 2010 and was reportedly kept “quiet” intentionally, presumably based on the upcoming trial that convited Tina’s rapist.  We apologize for any confusion this may have caused regarding the timeline.

Editorial Board of the Blog

43 thoughts on “Chuck Phelps Returns To Board Of Bob Jones University

  1. We all see the IFB tricks but when the resolution could have been a treat instead the IFBs give us a tootsie roll with no treat in the middle, We taste the sweet words only to see in the resolution that the IFBs actually believe a rapist would be willing to turn themselves into the police because the IFB pastor beguiles and encourages the child molester to do so. That is IFB “Magical Thinking” sprinkled with a little invisible powder. If the IFBs want to make it right with victims then go to the victims who were molested or beat with a rod while you were on watch and make it right with them through validation of their pain and admission of wrong doing on the part of the offender and the IFB pastors who hide the offenders abuse. Resolution and restoration are not different in the case of child abuse since there is no moving forward until you go back and find the victims who are suffering. I talked to Dr Phelps about my 2 sons sexual, physical and emotional abuse while he was at MBBC,,,,but alas he had no power to address it…seems he has a lot of power to influence his IFB colleagues to ignore his victim blaming while he ignores their victim blaming. Come on IFB boys…give us something that looks like an admission that you…yes you who had victims hurt on your watch are guilty. YOU are guilty of covering for the perpetrator while blaming victims. You IFB leaders must own your guilty actions and find you victims personally and make it right with each one….Now that is the beginning of a resolution. No more fancy sweet words lets see some remorse for what YOU personally have done to hurt your victims in your IFB church and helped other IFB leaders to do also by covering up for the perps and your IFB friends.. .

  2. Boy do I feel stupid. Here I thought you were being too harsh on Bob Jones University. After hearing about this, I am so ashamed. Once again, betrayed by those I had trusted and defended. BJU speaks volumes through what they don’t say. They are ignoring the comments on their website–no surprise there. Re-instating Chuck Phelps during the Anderson trial, BJU speaks volumes of disdain for abuse victims of all kinds, everywhere. BJU speaks volumes of disrespect for all Alumni, students, parents, faculty, staff, and supporters. BJU speaks volumes about the Bible it professes to believe and preach and teach and the god they claim to love and serve. Who would want the kind of god BJU says it represents? How can this have anything to do with the Christianity of the Bible? Cognitive dissonance; volumes and volumes of it. I am so ashamed of BJU. It would seem that they have little regard for the Bible which they profess as the final authority in faith and practice. It would seem that their god, is no god at all–at least not the God of the Bible. God said, through Jesus Christ to “Suffer the little children to come . . . NOT ‘Suffer, little children, suffer.’ “

    • Their God is small, petty, and punitive … you are right, Terry, this one speaks volumes regarding the direction they are intent on heading. I’m wondering if Stephen will ever return since anything “progressive” appears to be off the table or headed that way.

      C.P.

  3. I was a member of Phelp’s current church for 12 years until recently. My family and I decided that the lack of accountability in IFB churches is just too much for us to continue on. I met with 4 deacons regarding all of this and it was obvious that they had all been prepped for all of this. David Gibbs was brought in a couple different times to speak only to the deacons and their wives about this issue well before the trial of Willis.

    My wife and I plus our three children are now visiting other churches in the area and we will be moving our membership soon. I will never be a member of an IFB church again. My prayer is that the truth continues to come to light and that every lie and slanderous statement is exposed.

    • I am so glad to hear that you left the church Phelps Pastors. He is not fit to be a pastor and I don’t feel that the children in that church are safe, as Tina was not safe at Trinity. I know Phelps personally, I was a teacher at the school (Trinity), I was church clerk and I was involved in many other ministries. I lost all respect for him years ago and after what I saw him do and say at the Willis trial, I was physically ill. He tried to make the trial about him and his family and their nightmare of a year, not the rape of a young girl. He was more worried about the rapist than the victim! Your decision to stay away from IFB churches is wonderful. We’ve not set foot in one in many years. We go to a wonderful Bible preaching church, who loves and protects and guess who is the head of it? JESUS! Good luck to you and your family as you search. There is just the right church for you, it took us a while to find the right fit, but along the way, each church we went to added to our faith and friendships were formed. God bless you!

    • Matthew,
      I can only imagine how disheartened you felt as this all unfolded. As much as I am sorry for your pain and loss, I’m grateful you have shared this. This is the first I’ve heard of anyone leaving Colonial. As former faculty members at Trinity in Concord, my husband and I have not been able to understand how so many people could accept what Chuck did and the revelations at trial that proved he wasn’t fully honest with ABC 20/20, etc and just continue allowing him to remain the pastor. He never has apologized to Tina.
      Tina spent a week at my home in Sept. I wish people could see her heart in this whole matter. It is only by the grace of God that she hasn’t deserted her faith as so many other abuse survivors have.
      Thanks again for speaking up, Matthew. If you’d like to communicate with Tina you can leave a comment on the I Support Tina Anderson blog at blogspot

  4. This move by Bob Jones University is the *ULTIMATE* statement of contempt. There is no hope of salvage now. There is no hope of mending any fences. The University has ripped them all out and put solid walls in their place. As far as they are concerned, everyone who is not “their kind of Christian” is on the way to hell. They have issued an ultimatum to all Christians everywhere that things will be their way or not at all. Well, they can have their way. I have always believed that as long as there is breath, there is hope. For individuals this may be true. However, in this case–of a supposedly Christian institution–this is the final straw that breaks the camels back. While individuals in the institution may still do right and be used of God individually to bless and encourage others, I think as a professed Christian institution they have pretty much flushed any good that was left right into the cesspool.

    • “This move by Bob Jones University is the *ULTIMATE* statement of contempt.”

      Have to admit, not even I thought Bob Jones University would stoop this low. I have seen the University do some sorry things, but I had to take a double take when I saw this. Even found myself saying to myself, this has to be a typo! Disbelief gave way to wide eyed astonishment, wide eyed astonishment the gave way to outrage as I realized this is the ultimate BJU **** you!

      Just when I thought nothing fundamentalists and BJU could possibly do would surprise me anymore, they go and find something else to do that is further down the sewage pipe! :(

  5. Pingback: Chuck Phelps is Back on the Board of Bob Jones University « Free By His Grace

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  7. Is there more to Stephen Jones medical leave than meets the eye of the casual observer? Is it allowing him to distance himself from this controversy so that he can come back later? Is it allowing him to “exit” gracefully from the office of President? Has he had enough, and the medical leave is the public front of his dismissal or eventual resignation? Does he pose a “threat” of too much change and the medical issue is a smokescreen to conceal his departure, whether forced or voluntary? I have this creepy feeling that something big is going on, and that what we see from the outside looking in may bear little resemblance to the truth within. I have been in IFB ministries too long to not be suspicious that all the scratching is not necessarily where the itch is located.

    • I think you’re on to something there. Stephen Jones has never been ”just like daddy’ quite as much as Bobs 1,2,&3 have been. But he ‘has’ been trying to do his president’s job, with daddy ‘pulling the reigns’ behind him, ‘just like all three Bobs have done to ‘their’ successors in previous administrations. I do hope the man recovers. I also hope he ‘never’ comes back as president!No ‘successor has ‘ever’ been truly free to work without direct and indirect interference from ‘control freak daddy.’ If Stephen ‘didn’t’ return to the ‘saddle’, then maybe, maybe, ‘that’ would be the ‘end’ of the FAMILY FIRM thing, where so much control and evil religious toxicity, has always been able to leach through like religious poop, (power over other people ) through the blood relatives of the family firm, who have controlled BJU in its grip since day one. It’s never been the Lord’s school! It’s always been, one of the ‘Bob’s’ school.MY school. MY faculty. MY students. MY administration. MY money. MY rules. MY power, which by the way has NOTHING!!! to do with the true grace,love,or the power of God! I feel so sorry for all of you, your grief, shock, and frustrations with this insititution for what it has just done, by rewarding a very bad person who is also a very bad pastor, Phelps by letting him back on the board! Why didn’t the courts get him for perjury, for lying on the stand? And I thought lying was a sin. Well I guess it’s not a sin, when it’s a BJU ‘preacher oy favorite’ doing it! Has BJU and IFB fundamentalism, rewritten their Bibles! Or maybe they ripped the pages ‘out’ because they don’t believe Moral Law applies to ‘them.’ They’re so ‘lilly white’ that they’re above God’s law. It’ must be awfully lonely and empty up there on their ivory tower ! If Moral Law made them feel unhappy about their ‘feel good naricissistic selves,’ they just stopped believeing that it, Moral Law applied to ‘them’ anymore. My how convenient blind pride and sin can be! Let the false foundations of BJU crumble. Let the wall come tumbling down. The preacher boys are running out of excuses. After turning religion into a toxic clown.

      • Unfortunately the statue of limitations has been expired for about 10 years on obstruction of Justice charge. New Hampshire has a very short statute of limitations on that charge and for failure to report the statute of limitations is only 12 months.

        However, GOD’s statute of limitations hasn’t expired, He will hold him accountable!

        These leaders of Bob Jones, and the IFB, gathered around the accused and protected him, because to not do so, would reflect badly on many of them!

      • My thoughts exactly regarding the running of the U … when Bob IV couldn’t ascend the throne, Stephen got it by default. I can’t imagine the stress living in those kind of shadows can induce. I see the end in sight for the whole thing.

        Sadly, as Terry pointed out, there will be kids harmed as a result. Their programs will be suddenly dropped, they will find out the worth of TRACS accreditation, and they will discover they need to start over in many cases.

        So much pain due to such concentrated arrogance …

        C.P.

  8. Yes, time will tell. The tragedy is all the people who always end up getting hurt in something like this. Look at how many already are hurt by this one dirty, sneaky trick. Calculated to re-victimize victims yet again–especially those in the churches who now suffer in silence and will continue to suffer in silence and “obedience” to what their human shepherd preaches. Is there no balm in Gilead? My heart breaks for all the hurting; and they are not content to just let their victims go and move on with their lives–they have to keep on hurting them and hurting them. . . . .???

  9. As if BJU hasn’t given fundamentalism enough “black eyes” over the years, they have to compound their culpability with this. Another sad twist in a very twisted tale.

  10. They have now removed the discussions from their Facebook page. “Silence the naysayers!” If this does not take the cake for defining them as a cult, then I don’t know what does. A cult is not defined by its system of beliefs, but by how it works to control its followers. The only remedy now is to get out any way you can, anywhere you can–just get out of it.

  11. Pingback: Bob Jones Ignores and Deletes Questions « chucklestravels

  12. I was distracted by the fact that this upset person who wrote this article could not spell or continue a thought in a clean, easy-to-follow manner. I am confused about the timeline & other details as a consequence. But no worries. I agree with the overall theme of this article (I think?) that Chuck Phelps is a liar & BJU sucks…

    • Well, our good friend Chuckles does get passionate at times … especially where abuse and cover-up comes into play. The whole thing was over a decade in the making (from the original “incident” with Chuck Phelps covering it up) to the trial last May and our recent discovery that he is back on the BJU Board of Trustees.

      We’re glad you stuck with it and read what was posted.

      C.P. Traveler for the Editorial Board of the Blog

    • fubju;

      Thank you, CP.

      However, fubju is welcome to stay and stick it out, or not. People like this complain about crap to deflect It is sad that someone like this can focus on and complain grammar mistakes, if fubju would bother to go back and read this blog from the beginning the whole situation with all the nasty details is here. If that is too hard for them to read all that on this blog then I recommend they do their own research elsewhere and go start his/her own blog about this issue since it appears they think they can do a much better job.

      Yes, fubju, I do get upset. Have seen far to many lives ruined while pastors and administrators at fundy university’s refuse to help.

      • Phelps, Jones, Fuller, etc. are all to busy doing “God’s work” to accept their own failure to step in and protect those who they should protect rather than felons, aggressors, and the like. Their campaign to keep the narrow-minded focused on what THEY say is too important.

        Truth shall overcome … they are already exposed for the frauds they are.

        C.P.

    • Say, fubju… maybe you should consider getting evaluated by a mental health professional. Some things are genetic. Alternately, a regular GP should be able to correct what seems to be a rectal-cranial inversion. I’m not a doctor though, so I can’t speak for the medical community’s ability to help.

  13. Bob Jones University and Northland International University are going to fail simply because they don’t have regional accreditation. The internet is also exposing the hypocrisy of these institutions. Matt Olson, Chuck’s good friend, took Tina in. Matt is president of NIU. He sits on the same boards Phelps sits on. Have you noticed that separation over sin never takes place. They only separate from you if you attend the wrong church, etc. What a bunch of hypocrites.

  14. just heartsick and grieved over all of it. We must turn our eyes to Christ alone, because man will always disappoint us. PRAY for everyone involved to be humbled, repentant and then restored to a productive part of God’s kingdom.

  15. Pingback: Pastor Covers Up Rape, Makes Victim Apologize, Gets Invited to Join Christian School’s Board of Trustees | Friendly Atheist

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  17. I and my family were members of Colonial Hills “Cult” baptist Church. Not anymore and never a Fundi again. It really is a cult or at least a cult you can leave if you want to physically, even though they is continous mind control and anti christian and un loving practices. They care more about being farther to the right of God so they can brag about being the best. They do not want you to enjoy the love and liberty in Christ because that frees you from their grip of mind controlling gibberish. Pastor phelps lied many times to me personally and tried to manipulate, deceive and was purple faced when I told him that Tithing was a lie and he said if we did not tithe that God would curse me. I told him that that was a lie. Right God would save me but if I don’t give an IFB cult that only does things for the cult and it’s hierarchy and for the Gibb trained lying lawyers to come in and protect such an obvious wolf in sheeps clothing. My son went to BJU and it makes him and I and our entire family sick to death of how godlessly pharisitical and un loving continous we have the best rules that are not in the Bible and continuosley shovingthem down your throat. Never teach about how to really love like Christ did and does because phasitical religeous God like wanna bees can only be a Viper of a Pharasee. Just look at Chuck Rapist Protective Child Hating Lying Phelps and his Lovers and you will see the worst Jew Pharisees you could ever want to meet. BJU is a all about the god of Bob Jones and his carzy lunatic far right of Gods own rules for believers, it is know wonder real believers can see right throught their crazy, pride Filled Godless Loving Religon. Grant you This Bob, you can sure make some crazy, lousey, stupid, mean spirited, I got U rules, that all of heaven wouldn’t even think of doing to Satan. May Bob Jones and all of the Cult believers that still follow this endless lying institution wake up and eat the flesh of this university so that the head of it that loves all of his high level Mason Buddies on the board so much can hopefully admit they are fake believers and just demonic un loving rule makers that sometimes can preach or read the Bible.

    The sad part is, that even the original Pastor, that is still alive today was known by many to have had an affair with a former pastors wife that had two sons and a daughter and he never confessed his sin. Since this original pastor is in support of Phelps and made sure he got hired on and still supports him after all the lying and abuse what else could or would you expect out of these types, except abunch ravenous wolves protecting all their prey from the truth, so they can feed on them for along time to come. Only that time is now and soon say goodbye to Bob and all of the Fundi’s because everyone soon will know that they are religious mean spirited fakes. The religon of fundamentalism, not the truth, will die soon or be at least reduced to almost nothing of any importance.

    Be very careful in Fundi land if you still can stomach it and you haven’t been awakened by the spirit to leave yet. Wake up and just think a little!

  18. I’m confused. Where and what exactly is the “deception” and “sleight-of-hand” described in this article? The writer of this article (and many of you that are commenting) are proclaiming that Chuck Phelps is deceitful and wrong, but no one is really articulating a specific set of lies. How is BJU being deceitful? Are they not allowed to vote to put someone on their board? Do they have to notify me or you when they do? Nothing of what you’re saying will stand up in court. Whatever happened to “innocent until proven guilty?” As terrible as the abuse was, it’s impossible for Chuck or any of us to know precisely what went on behind those closed doors. Give the man a break…

    • Seth,

      If you are confused, allow me to point out a couple of the most basic facts:

      As to one Charles Phelps deceit – He willingly puts a minor in front of a congregation for her “sin” at the same time as her rapist but never connects the two. He then acts as the agent to get her out of state within a month. His own website contradicts his sworn testimony on the stand. That’s deceit, friend by any definition.

      As to the University of the Celebrated Jones Men – They make public claim that no person of questionable character who would actively do or say deceitful things (see the notes above) would ever sit on their Boards. Integrity is required first and foremost. Yet, they kept Phelps on a Board even after the trial was done, his testimony contradicted his website, and they told all of us, in effect, to “Go to Hell! Chuck’s a great guy.” in a formal response. And today, based on whatever pressure they felt, they accepted Chuck’s resignation while issuing (to date) no apologies or even a basic mea culpa. I find that just a bit outside of “honest” which is the basic definition of “deceit”.

      C.P. Traveler

    • Seth, you are a proven idiot now. Before the trial we could not prove in court that you are an Idiot but now we can.

      Your Chuck Phelsp deserves a long time in Jail. He is Evil! Get your head out of the sand and watch his own testimony on everything he said before and after the trial and you even should relaize then that he is a lying Fool.

      • DM—

        You’re right, Phelps deserves a long time in jail. New Hampshire’s statute of limitations is expired. That is the only thing that saved Phelps. It’s really too bad Phelps’s church wasn’t in a state like Pennsylvania. Phelps would be on trial like Monsignor William Lynn. As of this afternoon, Lynn’s case now resides with the jury. There is far more evidence, including Phelps’s own testimony under oath to convict him, than there is Monsignor Lynn.

  19. Pingback: Bob Jones University Expels Do Right BJU Organizer « chucklestravels

  20. From what I have researched he did resign in December 2011. However this did not stop BJU from their perverse insistence on covering up for Phelps as they pursued Chris Peterman to the point of expulsion for exposing Phelps.

  21. I attended Trinity Baptist only briefly after Tina had been sent to Colorado so I did not know her or anything about her situation. Pastor Phelps was still in charge. IMy husband and myself saw him and the church for what it was pretty quickly and stopped attending. I think everyone here should google Joshua Budgett of Pittsfield NH and see the new story affecting this church because of his need to protect and house pedophiles. His influence and advice has destroyed another family and irrevocably changed the course of a yound girls life forever. That is now two sex offenders that have harmed innocent members of his past congregation and I can gaurantee you that these aren’t the only two pedophile’s he allowed access to the most vulnerable and innocent of our society. I am sure as the trial for this man goes forward members of this church will try to find ways to blame this victim as well. I will say this only once she was and is a child who trusted this church and her perpetrator. I have known this child and had a close relationship her entire life. Long before Trinity, Pastor Phelps or the perpetrator became part of her life. She is a sweet,loving and christian girl who in no way brought this on herself or initiated any kind of inappropriate relationship with this perpetrator. There is a pattern in Trinity and with Pastor Phelps of putting the welfare and protection of the innocent and the victims behind their own desires. Please speak up and stop this behavior in your churches and communities. Children are the Lord’s greatest gift to all of us, we need to start treating them that way.

  22. Pingback: Bob Jones University~ Sexual Abuse Conference? « chucklestravels

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